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Owen Kimple Grief Report
#11
(09-11-2019, 06:54 AM)Fofofo21 Wrote: - How did the RD manage to launch early on his own? If someone else was inside, why weren't they targeted as well?
- Why did the RD launch early?
- Why couldn't the RD be detained if the HoS is on the shuttle? Why is a scientist lynching his own boss?
- Can someone post chat logs as proof that the Captain and CE said to not launch early, as well as any logs between RD and others during the shuttle encounter?
Well, to answer your questions:
-I did not
-The shuttle was fucking anarchy, I was deaf, and somone decided it was better to RCD walls in than risk people breaking in, so CLEARLY nothing was wrong. Obviously that last remark was sarcastic, but yeah, not a good time.
-Two very pertinent and merited questions, perhaps shadowflame could answer himself
-Sadly I was full deaf at the time, and did not interact with anyone because of it. Which is also why I had no clue if anyone said either of those things. Though I may have just missed it beforehand
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#12
HoS came on at the same time as me. IE when the shuttle was about to leave in under the last stretch of 5 seconds.

They RCD'd down the doors. I came in under them and began kicking the literal butt out of the person in front of the shuttle console. IE RD.

They didn't seem to care very much. Not about me kicking the butt out of the RD and not about arresting them either.

So, that's that.
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#13
"As far as I see it. This is fair, because if we're both looking at the harsher end of this. We're both guilty of capital crimes here."
-Indeed, you might be, however I was unable to hear the captain say not to early launch, so I could technically be at fault, but not OOCly
"Don't early launch without a good reason! No matter who you are."
-the shuttle was in anarchy, man.
So that's why I think this complaint reflects poorly on an otherwise IC situation.
"First of all. Those weren't head of staff-members. The people in that cockpit were you, an assistant, a Medical Doctor, and maybe another head of staff member. But they weren't in any obvious gear."
-At least one of them was, and even then, I was only one of three people, so why weren't the other three people attacked? were they somehow not committing treason while I was? that's pretty strange.

"The shuttle did get early launched, its why the CE screamed over comms for bloody murder. It's why I was angry that my nearly completed crossbreed was cut-short. so I ran onto the shuttle ready to beat someone up for cutting down 1 minute to 10 seconds."
-Not valid to crit someone as a non-antag

"HoS RCD'd in, and it was seen that you specifically were standing in front of the early launch console. So I targetted you specifically, with originally my hands, but the circular saw the medical doctor dropped right below you was also a good weapon."
-Read my earlier argument about how there had to have been two other people that also validated

"Onto the complaint of potentially breaking rule 1.3: No capital crimes were broken. It was assault with a deadly weapon, which is a major crime. Attempted murder might have been viable, if you didn't get healed out of crit, then proceed to try to murder me as well via your escalation. Which I then re-critted you and stabilized you approximately at the last 10 seconds of the shuttle docking. Which you died from afterward because a bomb went off when it docked."
-Most staff members on almost every SS13 server will agree that critting someone as a non-antag falls under attempted murder, however, you attacking the RD for being one of three people early-launching is still treason as you are actively attacking a head of staff, and do not know what might be going on behind the scenes. That's the same as killing a captain for executing an assistant as say, the bartender. Sure, they might have been innocent, but not only is it not your decision to make whether or not it was treason, it is NOT your job to go after the person. On top of that, you didn't witness me authorize so you couldn't have even known I had done it for sure, but simply went at me based off of my general location after departure, at which point I could have moved well away.

"Jeff, going "But another admin punished me with __. So how could this be fine?!?!" Doesn't really work, because everyone has different notes and different viewpoints -with the semi-vague rules here. This is being corrected with a more in-depth rule update that hopefully gets implemented soon."
Yes but this is also more indication that attacking a head at all without clear evidence that they're an antag is generally frowned upon.

"Fofofo, the negative encounter helped? But it was not the main causation. I assumed that the Captain and the CE's pleas for the shuttle to not be early launched would be heard, so I went to finish up my xenobio job. Only for me to be rushing to the shuttle and barely making it into the last two seconds."
-It was your sole motivation, which is quite clear as you didn't attack anyone else in that room with the exception of the one other person that tried to help me if memory serves. Beyond that, an early launch does not a valid make.

"Nearly spacing myself, I was very readily looking to beat up whoever disobeyed the two.  I just happened to see the RD nab in front of the console when the HoS breaks down two walls with an RCD to get into bridge."
-You saw someone next to the control console post-launch. Remembered that you said some bullshit to them, and they responded in kind, so therefore they should be hospitalized. Does this sound sane to you?

"Lastly. 3. How could it be grief when at least you're being escalated against by a vigilante dealing with your last minute insubordination. Or at the highest scale, mutiny for ignoring the chain of command? Like the space-law says you should not do otherwise it is a capital crime."
-You were not a security officer, you had no place doing that. That is validhunting. Note that vigilante assault of a head is still mutiny and can still get you executed or permabrigged, because only Sec Officers are permitted to enforce the law (with select exceptions given specific approval by either CentCom or the captain). Which again, is a breach of 1.3, while trapping someone who has, to your knowledge without gratuitous interpretation due to 'uhhh, he said mean thing and I saw him next to the shuttle console after the shuttle already launched' in crit for 3+ minutes is quite clearly shuttle grief.
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#14
I'm finding that post hard to follow EhMGee, could you edit it a bit so people can tell who is saying what?

Edit: Thanks!
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#15
It's just arguing the same points over and over. But let's recap

>You were not a security officer, you had no place doing that. That is validhunting. Note that vigilante assault of a head is still mutiny and can still get you executed or permabrigged, because only Sec Officers are permitted to enforce the law (with select exceptions given specific approval by either CentCom or the captain). Which again, is a breach of 1.3, while trapping someone who has, to your knowledge without gratuitous interpretation due to 'uhhh, he said mean thing and I saw him next to the shuttle console after the shuttle already launched' in crit for 3+ minutes is quite clearly shuttle grief.

You ignored the chain of command and you had no place early launching. That is mutiny and can get you executed or perma-brigged. If we're literally going to try to use any way possible to claim "trapping." Then you were trapping hundreds of crew-members, 3 who outrank you on station by trying to re-roll for antag a minute earlier instead of just letting everyone get on board. But that's okay because "uhh I'm RD and since I'm deaf I'll just do whatever."

>It was your sole motivation, which is quite clear as you didn't attack anyone else in that room with the exception of the one other person that tried to help me if memory serves. Beyond that, an early launch does not a valid make.

Why would I attack the assistant or medical doctor sitting in a chair? When there's an RD in full gear and cloak standing in front of the shuttle console after the station leaves. That's like getting angry that a player catches you in maint hacking into the hand-teleporter room but claiming bias because they had beef with you earlier in the round. Maybe so. But the main act is what's important here. Not what happened previously.

>You saw someone next to the control console post-launch. Remembered that you said some bullshit to them, and they responded in kind, so, therefore, they should be hospitalized. Does this sound sane to you?

Going off a complete hypothetical. When I was going off beating up the guy mutinying against the chain of command and nearly leaving me stranded.


Anyways. I think both points and sides are completely clear. You want me to get punished for "grief" I used the information I had and the sight and frustration I had when I decided to beat you up in the emergency shuttle.

So. Any other issues that can be inferred from this, from your perspective? Please leave them here for me to address. Otherwise, we may find ourselves just saying the same thing for 20 pages until a lead-min handles the thread.
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#16
(09-12-2019, 01:28 AM)Shadowflame909 Wrote: As far as I see it. This is fair, because if we're both looking at the harsher end of this. We're both guilty of capital crimes here.
Let me just reiterate, I was deaf, and could not hear the captain say not to early launch, and therefore OOCly had not broken a rule, though ICly I could certainly accept being charged with mutiny in that situation. 

1.3: 
Do not act as an antagonist when not one. If you commit crimes that can result in you receiving capital punishment as non-antagonist, you are breaking this rule.

You, however, have literally just admitted to breaking 1.3. Now, you can't tell me that "It's okay because you did it" because you are a MOD, you know the rules and you know that if I had broken the rules you should have ahelped it, rather than break rule 1.3. If you don't know the rules by now, after being a moderator for more than a year and now an Admin Jr. That is a fact. You have broken the rules, know that you have broken the rules, and are playing damage control because you think you can sidestep this. "He broke the rules so I can break the rules on him" is not a valid excuse. You admitted already you were angry at me, I can't imagine why, as you're the one who instigated. But that's not really my problem, my problem is that you seem to think you can blatantly break the rules and pass it off as "fair play."
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#17
What capital crime did I violate specifically though?

Note I said the Harsher end of this. As you're trying hard to lawyer me. I shall do the same to you.

You got beat up into crit. Healed up, that was an assault with a deadly weapon.

Everything was good. Around 20 seconds later after you're out of crit and good again. You start shooting lethals at me, You got beat again and started the process of healing up, but then the round ended.


If this is damage control when it clearly states in the same capital punishment you're trying to enforce that amends and healing should result in looking at a lesser punishment which would no longer be capital. Then you're attacking a strawman.
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#18
Bruh you literally just admitted to being guilty of a capital crime in your own words. You played yourself.

Nice edit bro
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#19
This is getting really petty. So I'll leave it at this. You're adamant and stable in your convictions and so am I mine.

Any further confrontation about this topic between us without the interjection of a judging party is futile.

Let's leave it at that before we just start slinging mud against each other.
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#20
I can agree with that.
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