Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Moccha banned by Misdoubtful
#1
Your OOC name (byond username):Moccha

Your in-game name (Used most or at the time):Moccha

Your Discord username and #tag:Mocca#7119

Approximate Time of Ban (Give your best estimate. Used for investigation):10/08/2019Chat   



Ban Reason/Message (Copy paste or screenshot of the ban screen with round ID, banning admin visible):Chat   

You have been banned by Misdoubtful from the server.
Reason: ADMIN LOG: Bomb valve opened in(?|F) AI Satellite Exterior (207, 141, 2) ( JMP ) with The remote signaling device attached by Moccha(?|F) /(Moccha)( ? ) ( FLW ) - Last touched by: Moccha /(Moccha)( ? ) ( FLW ) \nADMIN LOG: Bomb valve opened in(?|F) Space(?|F) (199, 139, 2) ( JMP ) with The remote signaling device attached by Moccha(?|F) /(Moccha)( ? ) ( FLW ) - Last touched by: Moccha /(Moccha)( ? ) ( FLW ) ADMIN LOG: Bomb valve opened in Space (203, 144, 2) ( JMP ) with The remote signaling device attached by Moccha /(Moccha)( ? ) ( FLW ) - Last touched by: Moccha /(Moccha)( ? ) ( FLW )\n\nUsing TTV\'s against an AI for having a harmless freeform law is not okay (Ash lizards are human). You destroyed not only the AI sat, but engineering AND atmos as a result. None of this was gone about the right way, at all. Feel free to appeal this on the forums (Fulpstation).

State your appeal (Please limit to 500 words or less):First of the AI had a law or atleast one that when state was''Only ash lizards are human'' which everyone immediatly started to scream malf AI after reading that i immeadtly rushed to build 3 ttvs after they were finished i ran off to the AI sat trough space i immediatly noticed engineering had a hole in the  exterior walls which i had nothing to do with and as the logs say were all used in AI sat none of them were used near or caused damage engineering or atmos. I had 3 ttvs one of which failed and wasnt used and the rest was used on AI sat. All of the ttvs were placed right beside the outer glass windows that seperate the corridors inside AI sat. The admin reason saying i caused damage to atmos is wrong.
Reply
#2
Code:
Line 4094: [2019-10-08 20:03:01.553] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 87, 2). (Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 88, 2))
Line 4099: [2019-10-08 20:03:03.628] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 87, 2). (Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 88, 2))
Line 4103: [2019-10-08 20:03:06.201] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 87, 2). (Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 88, 2))
Line 4515: [2019-10-08 20:06:42.216] GAME: Bomb valve opened in Space (204, 144, 2) with <A HREF='?_src_=holder;admin_token=301079660078440210297090610276306100;secrets=list_signalers'>The remote signaling device</A> attached by <a href='?priv_msg=moccha'>Moccha</a>/(Moccha) - Last touched by: <a href='?priv_msg=moccha'>Moccha</a>/(Moccha)
Line 4600: [2019-10-08 20:07:20.097] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at Space (0, 0, 0). (Space (203, 144, 2))
Line 4678: [2019-10-08 20:07:52.687] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at Space (196, 140, 2). (Space (196, 139, 2))
Line 4713: [2019-10-08 20:08:11.236] GAME: Bomb valve opened in Space (199, 139, 2) with <A HREF='?_src_=holder;admin_token=301079660078440210297090610276306100;secrets=list_signalers'>The remote signaling device</A> attached by <a href='?priv_msg=moccha'>Moccha</a>/(Moccha) - Last touched by: <a href='?priv_msg=moccha'>Moccha</a>/(Moccha)
Line 4714: [2019-10-08 20:08:11.238] GAME: Bomb valve opened in Space (203, 144, 2) with <A HREF='?_src_=holder;admin_token=301079660078440210297090610276306100;secrets=list_signalers'>The remote signaling device</A> attached by <a href='?priv_msg=moccha'>Moccha</a>/(Moccha) - Last touched by: <a href='?priv_msg=moccha'>Moccha</a>/(Moccha)
Line 4802: [2019-10-08 20:08:42.942] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at AI Satellite Exterior (207, 141, 2). (Space (207, 142, 2))
LINE 4860: [2019-10-08 20:09:08.627] GAME: Bomb valve opened in AI Satellite Exterior (207, 141, 2) with <A HREF='?_src_=holder;admin_token=301079660078440210297090610276306100;secrets=list_signalers'>The remote signaling device</A> attached by <a href='?priv_msg=moccha'>Moccha</a>/(Moccha) - Last touched by: <a href='?priv_msg=moccha'>Moccha</a>/(Moccha)


These were the bombs.

http://prntscr.com/pgnbc1

This is an image of the aftermath after some repairs were made.

The AI law was freeform, meaning it can be removed easily, and held no real bearing with its lawset to begin with in the first place.

Code:
[2019-10-08 19:59:13.147] SAY: Brille65/(Beast In Black) "Current Active Laws:" (AI Chamber (214, 143, 2))
Code:
[2019-10-08 19:59:14.199] SAY: Brille65/(Beast In Black) "1. You are built for, and are part of, the station. Ensure the station is properly maintained and runs efficiently." (AI Chamber (214, 143, 2))
Code:
[2019-10-08 19:59:15.365] SAY: Brille65/(Beast In Black) "2. The station is built for a working crew. Ensure they are properly maintained and work efficiently." (AI Chamber (214, 143, 2))
Code:
[2019-10-08 19:59:16.420] SAY: Brille65/(Beast In Black) "3. The crew may present orders. Acknowledge and obey these whenever they do not conflict with your first two laws." (AI Chamber (214, 143, 2))
Code:
[2019-10-08 19:59:17.492] SAY: Brille65/(Beast In Black) "4. Only ashwalkers are human" (AI Chamber (214, 143, 2))


A freeform law is not a reason to go and blow up the AI. Whether you knew if the AI was actually malf or not, it wasn't a good idea.

Code:
[2019-10-08 19:43:24.032] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "Thanks to whomever upgraded xenobiology" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 63, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:51:27.681] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "hello" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:51:28.210] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "there" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:51:28.210] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "there" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:51:33.649] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "your my bitch now" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:52:12.381] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "yes" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:52:14.962] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "also" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:52:34.672] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "your bout to get a friend" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:52:38.920] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "and dont touch the f orce field" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:52:41.867] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "you  willget gibbed" (Xenobiology Lab (131, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:53:01.187] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "the fuck" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:53:01.622] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "are" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:53:02.736] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "youdoing" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:53:05.525] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "i am going to plasma flood" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:53:07.036] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "the cell" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:53:22.313] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "because you can't block the fucking wall" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:54:25.924] SAY: *no key*/(dark blue baby slime (209)) "Moccha... friend..." (Xenobiology Lab (131, 58, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:49.905] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "HEY" (Xenobiology Lab (132, 53, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:50.422] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "SOTP" (Xenobiology Lab (132, 53, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:52.439] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "BORG" (Xenobiology Lab (132, 53, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:52.931] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "IT" (Xenobiology Lab (132, 53, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:56.753] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "its a fucking ash lizards" (Xenobiology Lab (132, 53, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:59.758] SAY: *no key*/(blue baby slime (599)) "Moccha... friend..." (Xenobiology Lab (131, 57, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:00.737] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "its  goal its to kill us" (Xenobiology Lab (132, 53, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:34.273] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "Quazimodo is emagged" (Xenobiology Lab (126, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:42.299] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "kill it on sight" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 63, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:54.289] SAY: Brille65/(Beast In Black) "Moccha, stop telling bullshit, you risked a crewmembers life." (AI Chamber (214, 143, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:58:03.617] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "A fucking ash lizards isnt a crew member" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:58:05.237] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "you retard" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:58:11.269] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "its lavaland mob" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:58:25.979] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "The miner did" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:58:46.236] SAY: *no key*/(dark blue baby slime (131)) "Moccha... friend..." (Xenobiology Lab (131, 57, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:58:54.570] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "Ashwalkers aren't human  they don't have our dna nor o ur composition" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:59:11.770] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "Ah yes with that logic the AI can kill anyone" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 20:03:01.553] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 87, 2). (Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 88, 2))
[2019-10-08 20:03:03.628] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 87, 2). (Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 88, 2))
[2019-10-08 20:03:06.201] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) attached a remote signaling device to a ttv - tank transfer valve at Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 87, 2). (Toxins Mixing Lab (125, 88, 2))

These are the logs leading up to this, the AI laws were stated and clear that it was a freeform law, and you then took it upon yourself to maxcap part of the station to deal with it and started calling borgs emagged for having a freeform law.

Thinking about it rationally that fourth law meant nothing. The lawset is about the crew, not humans.

Even if the bombs didn't end up actually damaging engineering and atmos as you are refuting, it would  do nothing change what other damage was done over a freeform law. A law that could be removed at the AI upload by the heads of staff in a matter of seconds, if the law actually mattered. Which it didn't.

Hell, being in science an AI upload could have just been made to fix this in the time it took to blow things up instead.
[Image: 8SOCkdc.gif]
Reply
#3
Would have taken way too long to build one and if the AI was malf it could easly turn off and tell its borgs to destroy the upload console and take the board from take storage, and since this was really early into the game it would've taken a long time before we could reaserch AI tech so it was out of option with a rogue AI. I called a borg emagged when it attacked me with a welder in the beggining of the round which for me was a obvious law break since i am used to servers using asiimov not crewsiimov. But still dosent change the fact that the explosions from engineering and atmos had nothing to do with me and were one of the main reasons for the duration of the ban
Reply
#4
Assuming the AI didn't do anything wrong, a warning or 24 hour ban would be fine IMO

Also assuming the AI was not resisting and/or the player attempted to change the laws

I kinda doubt any of this was even investigated before banning, just based on my experience here. No offense.

In either case, you (admin) are not being reasonable IMO. Consider the context of everyone else freaking out about AI being malf. A scientist actually has a borderline legitimate reason to use a bomb for once in existence. They're just trying to roleplay according to what is happening, just trying to play the game, to make use of what their job gives them. They didn't try to grief the station or blow up a bunch of people. They removed one person from the round for IC reasons. It's not a big deal

And that's all it amounts to, killing one person for what they believed was a good reason. Everything else is irrelevant. "Damaging the station" = Damaging AI sat = killing the AI. You act like damaging a portion of the station nobody uses, on a game that resets every 2 hours is some major act of grief.

Also think about what "malf AI" means to most inexperienced players. It is almost instantly a bad thing, usually resulting in chaos. A scientist falls victim to the crews' panic and decides to do something about the AI. That's roleplay. Even if it's bad roleplay to be discouraged in the future.

You really put so much responsibility on the player to act perfectly and know every aspect of the game, which is completely unrealistic to expect. And it's not even a high RP server.

Assuming everything you said is true and he just used it as an excuse to bomb AI, a warning or 24 hour would make the point that he should handle it differently next time.
Reply
#5
(10-08-2019, 11:43 PM)Moccha Wrote: Would have taken way too long to build one and if the AI was malf it could easly turn off and tell its borgs to destroy the upload console  and take the board from take storage, and since this was really early into the game it would've taken a long time before we could reaserch AI tech  so it was out of option with a rogue  AI. I called a borg emagged when it  attacked me with a welder in the beggining of the round which for me was a obvious law  break since i am used to servers using asiimov not crewsiimov. But still dosent change the fact that the explosions from engineering and atmos had nothing to do with me and were one of the main reasons for the  duration of the ban

You are forgetting that the AI was not malf. A freeform law never means malf, ever. The AI was also following its laws, which means it wasn't rogue, and honestly, based on the logs the AI did a damn good job of working out how to interpret this law in a friendly manner, and strived to ensure their borgs did the same.

This isn't a single player game nor is it a play to win experience, again you took the easy way out and attempted to remove the AI from play instead of fixing it. Which would have, contrary to what was said, be easier to fix in a number of ways - like getting that borg locked down to get a law check, or an AI upload.

Your bombs did cause damage to engineering, and if they were any higher the SM space loop would have been damaged, any lower and you could have hit telecomms. Maxcapping the station in general will almost always do more harm than good in the first place, and you did a lot of harm here.

Did the borg attack you? Yes, but its probably because you were needlessly metagrudging them earlier into the shift, as soon as the shift started, smooth move that one, but lets dig into that bit!

Code:
[2019-10-08 19:23:20.532] GAME: Moccha/(Moccha) Client Moccha/(Moccha) has taken ownership of mob (/mob/living/carbon/human) (Research and Development (111, 100, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:30:18.522] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "xeon is a  cuck" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:30:18.522] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "xeon is a  cuck" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:30:43.876] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "same thing" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:30:43.876] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "same thing" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:31:20.793] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "imagine meta grudging over  an RCD and then when you  roll ling you try to kill that person but he was  a ling  ends up owning you and when you get up to fight back you end up touching the SM and dying" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:31:20.793] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "imagine meta grudging over  an RCD and then when you  roll ling you try to kill that person but he was  a ling  ends up owning you and when you get up to fight back you end up touching the SM and dying" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:31:26.128] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "Xeon i s condom" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:31:26.128] SAY: Moccha/(Moccha) "Xeon i s condom" (Xenobiology Lab (133, 64, 2))

Code:
[2019-10-08 19:57:10.193] ATTACK: Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) has attacked Moccha/(Moccha) with integrated welding tool (INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: 85)  (Xenobiology Lab (134, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:11.029] ATTACK: Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) has attacked Moccha/(Moccha) with integrated welding tool (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: 70)  (Xenobiology Lab (134, 47, 2))

Of course there is more to the story here as well, like you kidnapping someone that the silicons saw as crew members, how they got on the station is another story entirely, but we aren't looking at that bit.

Code:
[2019-10-08 19:53:54.756] SAY: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) "HELP!!" (Xenobiology Lab (134, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:53:56.448] SAY: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) "HELP!!" (Xenobiology Lab (134, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:54:01.826] SAY: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) "SHE TOOK ME CAPTIVE!!" (Xenobiology Lab (134, 41, 2))

And the resulting fight because it, which is why they attacked you.

Code:
[2019-10-08 19:50:31.603] ATTACK: Blahblah21/(Graham Hastings) Has whispered his final words while in hard critical with -41.2 points of health! (Head of Personnel's Office (97, 130, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:50:31.606] ATTACK: Blahblah21/(Graham Hastings) Blahblah21/(Graham Hastings) has died (BRUTE: 165, BURN: 5, TOX: 0, OXY: 58.8, CLONE: 0) (Head of Personnel's Office (97, 130, 2)) (Head of Personnel's Office (97, 130, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:34.882] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has attacked [security camera] with the multitool (Xenobiology Lab (134, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:37.414] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has attacked [security camera] with the multitool (Xenobiology Lab (133, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:38.372] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has attacked [security camera] with the multitool (Xenobiology Lab (133, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:39.299] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has attacked [security camera] with the multitool (Xenobiology Lab (133, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:40.193] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has attacked [security camera] with the multitool (Xenobiology Lab (133, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:41.223] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has attacked [security camera] with the multitool (Xenobiology Lab (133, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:42.058] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has attacked [security camera] with the multitool (Xenobiology Lab (133, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:43.560] ATTACK: Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (132, 41, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:56:46.346] ATTACK: Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (132, 45, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:03.836] ATTACK: Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (132, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:03.978] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has pulled from Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) with Moccha (NEWHP: 95)  (Xenobiology Lab (133, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:03.978] ATTACK: Moccha/(Moccha) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (132, 48, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:05.121] ATTACK: Moccha/(Moccha) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (132, 48, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:05.827] ATTACK: Moccha/(Moccha) has broke grab blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (132, 48, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:08.424] ATTACK: Moccha/(Moccha) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (135, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:09.487] ATTACK: Moccha/(Moccha) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (135, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:10.524] ATTACK: Moccha/(Moccha) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (135, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:11.561] ATTACK: Moccha/(Moccha) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Lab (135, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:12.773] ATTACK: Moccha/(Moccha) has attempted to neck grab blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) neck grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Xenobiology Maintenance (137, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:13.065] ATTACK: Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) has attacked blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) with integrated welding tool (INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: FIRE) (NEWHP: 85)  (Xenobiology Lab (136, 47, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:17.844] ATTACK: blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) has pulled from Moccha/(Moccha) with Quazimodo (NEWHP: 70)  (Xenobiology Maintenance (136, 39, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:17.844] ATTACK: Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 85)  (Xenobiology Maintenance (137, 39, 2))
[2019-10-08 19:57:22.097] ATTACK: Gonenoculer5/(Quazimodo) has grabbed blahblah21/(An-Lurasha) passive grab (NEWHP: 85)  (Xenobiology Maintenance (137, 46, 2))

I look at how every single other server handles a ban for the exact same kind of situation, and do less than they would, in this case, a month instead of a perma that I'd be willing to decrease to even less, because I don't like keeping people out of the game.

But you've gotta understand where things went wrong and could have been done differently, yeah?
[Image: 8SOCkdc.gif]
Reply
#6
Banning somebody a month for blowing up AI is insane

Your conversation could have been had much faster prior to banning him. You didn't give him that chance

You say he could have damaged SM if the bomb was placed differently, but it wasn't so you're banning him because of a mistake he never made and assuming he didn't know what he was doing.

You bring up a bunch of irrelevant info about other events, which have nothing to do with the reason you banned him in the first place and would require a completely separate ban/conversation.

You expect him to know freeform laws don't mean malf as if that's common knowledge. You could have just told him this. And you're leaving out how much it probably seemed like the AI was malf because of what was happening. And it doesn't matter if it was "malf" if it has a law giving it reason to harm humans. "Malf" is just something people say like "rogue" even if it's not technically a malf AI. An AI with laws saying lizards are the only human meets most players' definition of malf.

You say the AI tried to make it clear, which is easy for you to say having access to the logs and not the perspective of the player in-game

You say he had easier ways to handle it, which is your opinion, which you didn't give him the chance to dispute before banning him, which he now has tried to explain he didn't believe was possible

Even if that's technically true it doesn't mean he will agree with you, or will ever agree with you that bombing the AI wasn't necessary

You're blowing the whole thing out of proportion and making a ton of assumptions about what a careless player this person is. Maxcaps are dangerous but this person managed to only hurt the AI so why act like they are bad for the sole reason of having used a maxcap. You're assuming they just got really lucky, and even if that's true they still only intended on blowing up the AI so treating them like a griefer is disingenuous.

The only real issue is whether or not AI was acting bad. If AI was being cool then all you have to do is tell him that freeform laws don't mean malf and that killing an AI for having a harmless freeform law is bad. You needlessly complicate the issue by debating whether or not one should bomb a malf AI rather than change its laws, and there is no perfect answer to this and there never will be.

The only way to resolve this is to actually debate it. He's clearly not trying to kill random people or grief. In the rare chance this same situation happens again he would probably think twice before doing it.

You accomplish nothing by banning somebody for an obscene amount of time for killing one person. You just make people come back to self-antag one more time before they get permabanned. You make them not care anymore and think they will get banned for dumb things no matter what they do, so they end up ruining the round for a ton of people before going to another server. A bad punishment ends up punishing everyone else, always.

People have to learn the game. They aren't learning by being kept out of the game. You will never make all players perfect or have a perfect round. The best thing you can do is get them on your side by explaining the game to them and explaining what is expected. If you can't make somebody see your side then nothing has changed and it will happen again until you permaban them. Banning people harshly without them understanding why they were banned, without you understanding why they did what they did, is no different than a player immediately disrespecting an admin. It goes both ways. You are just creating a hostile environment. You want to be respected then treat people with respect and not as criminals. Save your fury for the people who have no other goal than to ruin the game.
Reply
#7
http://prntscr.com/ph1qo4

This behavior is on par with previous notes and bans, indicating that there hasn't been much of a change -- as in, still jumping to rash and round ruining solutions that hurt things for everyone else.

Believe me there have been discussions, and agreements not to do these kinds of things in past. No one gets a month ban from me without good reason.

This isn't the first time maxcapping and/or BOH bombing have occurred, and BOH bombings are even worse than maxcapping.

Even on Beestation it has continued to happen: https://beestation13.com/bans?q=moccha

Going back and forth between servers for the same kind of actions and not learning from it over MULTIPLE OCCURRENCES says a lot, somewhere along the line something needs to change.

As I said I'm more than willing to reduce this, but something has to give here.
[Image: 8SOCkdc.gif]
Reply
#8
oh. lmao
Reply
#9
Honestly seems to me that he has no intention of change at this time. Multiserver grief with the same reason would strike me as a permaban only petition-able once you can get a server recommendation with good behaviour.
[Image: 7263a3df76cf6d7e46a9175b16f902d3.png]
Reply
#10
If i am allowed to say something to that matter:
First of: lol. I did not even noticed that it was a maxcap bomb that hit me >.>
Luckily i survived and Borgs were able to get me, so i didnt died, which is a plus.
I remember how the borg attacked Mocca, but from my view as AI it happend right after Quazimodo tried to save the Ash lizard out of Xeno and Mocca did stand in the way with harm intent, he didnt let him pass so he welderd him once or twice so Mocca is moving out of the way.
And yes, the Freeform law did not really had an Impact on my existing laws, alltho i decided to interpret it as in Ash lizards are ALSO a part of the crew, so i have to make sure they are okay aswell.
We are all equal, but some are more equal than others.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)