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ban appeal
#1
ooc name: gauchoblues

ic name: Jack Mercer

discord name: gauchoblues

time: aprox 2:20 pm

reason: You have been banned by Papaporo Paprito from Roles: Head of Security, Warden, Detective, Deputy, Security Officer.
Reason: Killed an assistant who broke into security with a foam force shotgun. Please read the rules regarding overescalation. -Requested by shadowtail
This ban is temporary, it will be removed in 3 days. The round ID is 5307

appeal: I saw an explosion outside security, ran in to see a man in what looked like a hardsuit wielding what looked like a shotgun dragging a crate full of security gear that I didn't have time to fully evaluate. Rather than stand there and wait to be shot, I panicked and ran to get my own weapon and fight him. I did receive damage from him somehow but I know now it wasn't from the gun. At the time I had no idea his gun was fake and by what I had seen all signs pointed to him being a traitor. Rather than risk having him kill me or escape with what I thought could be lethal weapons I decided to fight him. ive had a lot going on in my life lately, I suffered a house fire recently, and as a result ive been a little jumpy. I feel that a  warning would have been more appropriate under the circumstances. I don't understand why I, a lawyer, was job banned from sec roles for panicking when I saw what I thought was an armed man breaking into sec with explosives and a shotgun.
#2
There is a distinct difference between real shotguns and foam force shotguns. One fires buckshot/slugs, the other fires harmless darts. While they may look the same visually, you had ample time during your skirmish to realize that the assistant was only firing dots and posed no threat. You even went back to the armory to get another gun after your current one ran out; you could very easily have seen it was fake.

When you finally did take him down, you did so using disabler weaponry—which was a good move. However, after he was on the ground and defenseless, you didn't subdue him with handcuffs or zip ties or anything nonlethal; instead, you switched to lethals and continued to fire on him until he was dead. On top of this, you kept firing even after he was dead until he was a husk (in fact, I think you completely emptied the gun's clip on him), which was extremely uncalled for.

Overescalation is defined as retaliating with greater force than is necessary. In this case, zero force was necessary (outside of disablers), yet you went so far as to kill him. Not to mention, you did so as a lawyer. While you may have security access, it's only so you can communicate to potential clients; arresting or attacking people isn't in your jurisdiction. Because of this gross negligence of both the situation and this clause, I felt you deserved a ban, not a warning.
- Ash Lizman
#3
I didnt know the gun was fake until after he was already dead. I see in the rules it says if you act like an antag expect to be treated like one, is not breaking into security to steal restricted items while armed with what looks like a shotgun acting like an antag? I just don't see how my mistake of not realizing he was not in fact an antag trying to kill me and other security members counts ass gross negligence. Ive never been banned from anything here before, never had any issues with anyone as far as im aware. I thought the brig was under attack by an antag and did what I thought was needed to prevent potential loss of life. I wouldn't have killed him if I thought he was anything other than an antag. I only did what I did because I believed at the time that he was trying to bring harm to people on the station. being job banned for a first offense with no warning just feels a little harsh considering the circumstances but its your call. im not trying to start an argument or anything.
#4
I can see the husking as over-escalation and I do not mean to give this player an out by stating this, but riot darts are traitor items are they not. If someone was trying to break into sec and some of what he said was true with the chaos on the station I would be worried about that. I only bring it up because If I knew for sure that they were riot darts or certain environmental factors could cause me to believe such I might do the same as him.
#5
(01-15-2020, 11:57 PM)Sardonus15 Wrote: I can see the husking as over-escalation and I do not mean to give this player an out by stating this, but riot darts are traitor items are they not. If someone was trying to break into sec and some of what he said was true with the chaos on the station I would be worried about that. I only bring it up because If I knew for sure that they were riot darts or certain environmental factors could cause me to believe such I might do the same as him.

Nah, foam force weapons are findable in maintenance or in the dormitories. Not the same as an e-bow or riot darts. They look the same as real-life Nerf darts and just bounce off whatever they hit. They deal no damage.
- Ash Lizman
#6
(01-16-2020, 12:48 AM)Shadowtail117 Wrote:
(01-15-2020, 11:57 PM)Sardonus15 Wrote: I can see the husking as over-escalation and I do not mean to give this player an out by stating this, but riot darts are traitor items are they not. If someone was trying to break into sec and some of what he said was true with the chaos on the station I would be worried about that. I only bring it up because If I knew for sure that they were riot darts or certain environmental factors could cause me to believe such I might do the same as him.

Nah, foam force weapons are findable in maintenance or in the dormitories. Not the same as an e-bow or riot darts. They look the same as real-life Nerf darts and just bounce off whatever they hit. They deal no damage.
Thank you for replying to me, I think I may not have been clear. Ya'll seem justified in the ban, I'm just throwing some food for thought. With chaotic circumstances I would not chance being hit by normal darts due to the possibility of them being riot darts. I don't know if the banned player got hit by a few and had the time to realize the darts are normal darts and was calm enough to figure out if that they were normal darts.
#7
This ban has expired. Closing.
- Ash Lizman


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