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mashedpotatoes2001 Ban Appeal
#1
Your OOC name (byond username): mashedpotatoes2001

Your Discord username and #tag: COUCHES COUCHES COUCHES #0203

Approximate Time of Ban (Give your best estimate. Used for investigation): 11:30 PM PST

Ban Reason/Message (Copy paste or screenshot of the ban screen with round ID, banning admin visible):

State your appeal (Please limit to 500 words.  We will not actually count the words unless your appeal is absurdly long):


ok, I didn't really want to do this but a couple admins and mods have encouraged me too so whatever

lets start with the whole, true story.

first, i was playing a grey shit and wandered over to sec. there i see a mute sec officer wandering around like a loser. i shoved him around a bit and pushed him. i never did any damage and that is not against the rules. He then pulled out his disabler and I pushed him for it. This seems to be the big issue, but if someone pulls a taser or a gun on you irl, are you going to wait to see if they shoot you? I would argue this was better rp then waiting to see what he did. anyways i disabled him and stripped him to assume his identity. i left his jumpsuit on the floor for him as well as shoes and gloves and set him free. keep in mind this is towards the end of the round. I then wandered into sec to find the wardens dead body full of warden gear. I decided to do a gimmick and see how long i could impersonate the warden, speaking only through emotes and playing a mute. I actually DID the duties of a warden which is why you see "stripped random people" in my ban reason, because in actuality they were wanted criminals and i was brigging them. ss4 knew this and decided to leave it out. I then saw tory with his heiro club and stole it. This is another issue being raised but is again, a non issue. Tory has a history of murdering me for no reason, as a few rounds prior he killed me and left me to husk for shoving him once. This is by no means me saying i meta grudged him, just pointing out that me getting bwoinked for theft when he has self antagged my multiple times is inconsistent. that aside, It was a dangerous and illegal weapon to have on the station so i had an entirely ic reason to confiscate it as the warden. I then got coms asking all sec to fight the growing cult in med bay lobby. None of the cultists were showing signs of actual cult markings yet (ie red eyes or evil halo) so i used the club which deals relatively low burn damage to force the likely cultists to disperse making it very clear what the intentions were. Saying as they were all likely cultists and had been reported as such, i would have been valid to open fire with lethals to clear the cult out but i didnt, instead i tried to use crowd control. saying that it was "randomly using the staff" is disingenuous as again, ss4 knew all this. Again, I relatively peacefully cleared out likely cultists and probable converts, which is an ic issue. that is literally all that happened, thats it. i then got ajailed for attacking an obvious ling (arm bladed a doctor as an assitant. i highly doubt he had a dark blessing.) as a side note, the stripping sec officers and impersonating sec command has actually been cleared with another admin (or mod i cant remember). I dont remember the name but it was almost the exact same situation as this and i literally ahelped to make sure it was ok. He said and I quote "there are no issues as long as you accept the ic consequences". I forgot the name of the staff but im sure it would be easy to read through logs to find if you were so inclined.

now lets get in to the admin abuse side of things. Ss4 decided to not only purposely ignore me as i tried to explain the situation through ahelps, he utterly lied in the ban reason. He also lied about the rp nature of the server and linked the wrong ruleset to me, which is not the one you provide and make new players read. Not only that, he refused to let me sleep by constantly pinging me after me asking him to stop last night. I asked him to stop probably about 3 or 4 times with him ignoring me and continuing to ping me. at first he tried to disguise it as talking about the ban, which i had already accepted and dropped, but then he just decided to ping me for no reason. I took a screenshot of the ping on mobile and i have admin witnesses to the whole ordeal. After i told him to stop and used the screenshot as proof of admin abuse, he began pinging then immediately deleting the messages so that i couldn't screenshot them and no one would know. I could give a shit about bans and petty internet squables but the minute it starts affecting my actual life is when it is not ok. I had something important today and his pings kept me up late. I eventually put on dnd for my phone but the point is I shouldn't have to. He has also tried countless times to find reasons to ban me. for example, he bwoinked me for draining a plasma can that was mostly empty next to a scrubber in toxin storage...... He also gibbed me as an ai for saying the word "shitmin" ic and also gibbed another random ai for my "transgressions." 


so basically the argument of power-gaming is out, as I didnt just steal sec gear and fuck off. I used it for a solid, if slightly stupid gimmick that actually worked.
the argument of self antag holds 0 water as i dont think i damaged anyone besides likely culties and converts, and even them i damaged lightly.

the only thing you could possibly argue is improper escalation with the disabler, but even then its iffy

I killed no one and ruined no ones round. this was all 10 minutes or so before shuttle so its not like anyone was really inconvenienced either.


i am more than happy to provide the ping evidence in disc because i sc it on mobile



feel free to deny and lock now

also forgot to mention, as far as i know the only person who ahelped me was tory. again that was a non issue as i had clear ic motive to take the club, and bwoinking me for that would be entirely unfair and hypocritical based on his past actions and current and continuing meta communication.

also ss4 removed the discord role given to me by another admin from the server entirely. dont really care just thought that was petty
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#2
Alrighty, so I will say that you messing with the sec guard and stealing his ID is rule breaking according to rule 2 and 1.2. However, acting as a warden and doing his job, hurting likely cultists, attacking a likely ling, all of these sound very IC to me as long as no one was killed.

I don't know anything about the Ss4 issue, but if what you say is true then it was very unprofessional of him. Admins are to be held at a higher standard than that. If you want, you can report it to Swain or Wind along with the screenshots.

I personally think this was more of a day ban sort of thing, if not even just a warning.
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#3
yeah I can see how the sec guard might be a violation of the rules, but the key info there is that i have had that gimmick approved by admins and had express permission to do it. Now obviously ss4 is a different staff member, but as far as i know the first ruling stands above others no?

and even if it is ruled to be a rule violation, a week ban is wild for something that is textbook grey tide, and was approved by admins. i made sure to let him go and not take his clothes as to not ruin his round. I have played roudns where im stripped and must work as an assistant, and I actually quite enjoy them. it opens some fun rp options. and that is kind key here, i wasnt power gaming as i was clearly rping. the fact that i didnt speak as ss4 loves to point out WAS the rp, i was playing a mute to keep the charade going.

also, it is fair to point out that i have been a bit of a shitter in the past. However, I quickly adjusted my behavior and you will notice a trend of less and less issues recently. I am an ex bee player so i am used to a different style of play, but so far i have adjusted
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#4
Personally, as one of your borgs when you got gibbed, what ss4 did was a really shitty move, killing you for saying shitmin, when people get away with a lot worse, the thing with the discord pinging is just a plain shitty move especially when you're trying to go to sleep, It's just plain admin abuse. It seems that he's trying to pull every trick out of the book and putting you under very severe scrutiny so that he can hand out the ban.
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#5
Quote:ok, I didn't really want to do this but a couple admins and mods have encouraged me too so whatever

Fantastic!

Quote:first, i was playing a grey shit and wandered over to sec. there i see a mute sec officer wandering around like a loser. i shoved him around a bit and pushed him. i never did any damage and that is not against the rules. He then pulled out his disabler and I pushed him for it. This seems to be the big issue, but if someone pulls a taser or a gun on you irl, are you going to wait to see if they shoot you? I would argue this was better rp then waiting to see what he did. anyways i disabled him and stripped him to assume his identity.

From my understanding on this bit, it was looked at as you pushed them around 10 times and instigated what occured? You have to admit that is kind of baiting a response from security and therefore could be seen as grief by them, whether it was or was not intended that way originally, its important to consider how the other person will interpret things.

Quote:I then wandered into sec to find the wardens dead body full of warden gear. I decided to do a gimmick and see how long i could impersonate the warden, speaking only through emotes and playing a mute. I actually DID the duties of a warden which is why you see "stripped random people" in my ban reason, because in actuality they were wanted criminals and i was brigging them.

I can get this, although you weren't officially the warden people saw you as being the warden regardless and responded accordingly, and had expectations on how the warden would act though.

Its also important to note that people should only be stripped when being perma brigged. Otherwise they should be searched for illegal materials and things related to their crime, (Things that could help them break out should be taken and placed into the locker in their cell and then returned to them) to be removed and held as evidence and then returned to the proper departments (This last bit honestly never happens but its the ideal scenario so its worth mentioning).

The staying mute and using emotes so as to not give away your identity part is completely understandable.

Quote:I then saw tory with his heiro club and stole it. ... It was a dangerous and illegal weapon to have on the station so i had an entirely ic reason to confiscate it as the warden.

I can again see this would be a space law issue, and a bit on how this is greify, as security shouldn't be keeping peoples items for personal use and contraband should be stored in the contraband locker. And on a meta scale we could question how would the warden know what the staff is and what it does without seeing it in action first? Its one of a kind technology to be recovered during the round.

Quote:I then got coms asking all sec to fight the growing cult in med bay lobby. None of the cultists were showing signs of actual cult markings yet (ie red eyes or evil halo) so i used the club which deals relatively low burn damage to force the likely cultists to disperse making it very clear what the intentions were.

Space law like before about trying to refrain from harmful force unless required. But again I'm not sure if it was a red alert or if you had confirmed multiple hostile parties and a need to use harmful force to prevent harm to yourself.

Investigation always takes priority with security, but it unfortunately doesn't always occur that way, but its very important to confirm people as being antags with some kind of evidence, as a lack of proper evidence can result in people being unjustly removed from the round.


Quote: i then got ajailed for attacking an obvious ling (arm bladed a doctor as an assitant. i highly doubt he had a dark blessing.)

As long as you are aware that arm blades can be obtained by things like an emagged limb grower, dark blessing, and from xeno bio, to mention a few methods.

Quote:now lets get in to the admin abuse side of things. Ss4 decided to not only purposely ignore me as i tried to explain the situation through ahelps, he utterly lied in the ban reason. He also lied about the rp nature of the server and linked the wrong ruleset to me, which is not the one you provide and make new players read.

We are not currently MRP. We are LRP. With silicons being held to MRP standards.

Quote:Not only that, he refused to let me sleep by constantly pinging me after me asking him to stop last night. I asked him to stop probably about 3 or 4 times with him ignoring me and continuing to ping me. at first he tried to disguise it as talking about the ban, which i had already accepted and dropped, but then he just decided to ping me for no reason. I took a screenshot of the ping on mobile and i have admin witnesses to the whole ordeal. After i told him to stop and used the screenshot as proof of admin abuse, he began pinging then immediately deleting the messages so that i couldn't screenshot them and no one would know.

I witnessed this. He pinged you, a lot.

Quote:he bwoinked me for draining a plasma can that was mostly empty next to a scrubber in toxin storage......

Whenever someone opens a canister we get a message that someone has opened a can full of x gases and x moles at x location, sometimes we don't see exactly what happens from there because we might be busy, but a lot of time it gets looked into anyways, just to be on the safe side. That might be what occurred here, its just routine.

Quote:He also gibbed me as an ai for saying the word "shitmin" ic and also gibbed another random ai for my "transgressions."
 
AI is a bolded role, AKA, a game important role designed to help progress the round and story forwards and shouldn't be removed from play lightly, same as any of the command roles. People shouldn't be removed because of others actions either. Is there more to this part?

Quote:so basically the argument of power-gaming is out, as I didnt just steal sec gear and fuck off. I used it for a solid, if slightly stupid gimmick that actually worked.
the argument of self antag holds 0 water as i dont think i damaged anyone besides likely culties and converts, and even them i damaged lightly.

I can understand how powergaming is attributed here since you used the role to obtain the staff for personal use, and messing with the cultists (I am assuming they were confirmed as cultists) even with good intentions. But at the same time if people took the time to investigate and discover you weren't the real warden, things would have gone a lot differently here.

Theres a bit of a gray area here but it seems like you were doing what you could to undertake the role from what you've stated, I'd say try to do better to follow space law in the future and please please PLEASE refresh yourself on it, and possibly do a quick refresher whenever you play anything related to sec for that matter. Its also probably better to see about officially undertaking the role with a proper ID transfer when possible, or getting the warden cloned if their soul is still around somewhere. Hell if command approved it I see no reason there couldn't just be two wardens.

Besides that try to look into what causes people to murder you, call you out, any stuff like that into the future, its probably best not to repeat said action, whether you feel in the right about it or not. Like shoving the sec officer multiple times, then robbing him when he reacted to it, try to avoid things that might bait people into a response, as these things can, as you've seen now, be interpreted as grief, or a metagrudge.

Then again its really important to ahelp not only when things occur but before taking action or doing what potentially be a dangerous gimmick as it will probably clear up a lot of things like this ahead of time and save everyone a lot of hassle. Especially since we don't have the capacity to know one persons ruling from x shift and another persons from another shift. Its just not possible for us to all have the same knowledge and the same stance round to round, so its understandable how gogeta didn't have the same willingness to give the big go ahead and approve it. I try to stress this bit to everyone, but its a bit of an uphill battle.

I do see your name come up often though, and I hope that the bit about working to improve is sincere and is something we can see visible improvement with, in the very least in game where it matters most.

-

You requested I give a response to this, so here you go!
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#6
Space law is not a server rule, it is an ic set of laws. A lot of what you said is valid based on the assumption that I was sec, but I wasn’t. I was an assistant impersonating sec, and acted in the “in between” manner someone doing this irl would. As for the stripping on perma, literally ever sec officer o have ever seen strips into the brig locker that unlocks after the time is up. I feel like the only valid criticism here is that I baited a sec officer, but that’s happens all the time and as far as I know people don’t get week bans for it. Also I didn’t take the staff for personal use, I threw it in the armory as it was a dangerous and illegal weapon. I only used it when the captain ordered all surviving sec to fight the cult in med lobby. I showed up and didn’t see any obvious cult action but I used the staffs to disperse them semi-peacefully while still keeping myself safe

Also, I had ahelped the same gimmick because it was potentially in a Greyish area and had it expressly approved by another staff. I was also purposely acting on the fringes of space law as the whole rp was “an abused grey tide trying to clean up the station”. I actually know space law very well and made sure that when I broke space law (again, not server law) that I was doing so in ways that A: made sense to the gimmick and B: didn’t actually make anyone miserable. There’s a reason I didn’t throw the 2 criminals into jail or steal their stuff.
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#7
Now that I look more in details into it, I see the problems everywhere.
I was kinda giving up when I saw that you pushed people around. But looking how you became warden for some reason and actually did your job is kinda surprising.
Now, the removal of the hierophant club from Tory is really meh. I dont see why you would take and item that does require a lot of investement to get.
The cult dispersion in medbay was also meh, I mean, I g u e s s its a plan but with possible collateral damage and stuff...
Now the ling killing is kinda bs, getting ajailed fot it is very dumb if it was indeed super obvious.
The ruleset is also in a weird spot since we are moving toward mrp so there is still some grey areas
And the pinging, like, wtf... wasnt here to witness it but other mods or admins did witness it. Wtf is wrong with peoples •_•
And the gibbing as ai thought... "yeah sure ima delete a ever so important role since it is played by a shithead that will not help" is the only thing I can think about.

Ok so overall, Beside the not so cool early part (pushing and taking sec stuff), everything else is actually pretty ok here.

+1to set our boi free
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#8
Free tay kay
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#9
Space law and our ruleset is in a really strange place right now where the best way to describe it is excess breaches falling under grief or powergaming, which can absolutely be true in many cases, as it isn't awfully difficult to abuse a security role if someone wants to, so thats the best place to reference it.

I'd argue that impersonating sec kind of falls under the same jurisdiction because someone could potentially do so in order to do something like greytiding and powergaming, and that if someone is going to choose to impersonate security, they should be bound by the rules of security, unless they are an antag with a goal that can be accomplished by doing so, and only within limits.

But again, I didn't do this ban. I'm just stating that breaches in space law can be interpreted as such.

It'd be like someone impersonating a doctor, if they mess up, they are still held liable.
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#10
Yeah I get what you mean. I did follow space law to the best of my characters abilities, but Roman Shocky didn’t go to law school....

Also, so far it seems as if every staff member who has viewed this is in full support of either reduced ban or just outright unbanning.
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