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Owen Kimple Grief Report
#1
ROUND ID #: 3335
YOUR Character Name: Chris P. Jenkins
YOUR Byond Key: EhMGee
GRIEFER Character Name: Shadowflame 909
GRIEFER Byond Key:
Description of grief occurrence: Talks shit during the round because I was doing nanites, nothing of real consequence. When shuttle leaves he breaks into command section of the shuttle and crits me with a Csaw before roundend.

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#2
This conflict between us last round was very clear. I'm doing xenobio. You're being the RD. Whatever. We get into a spat over the way the RND points are used, and you threaten to fire me. I let the topic go and continue doing xenobio. Someone is spam calling the shuttle and it's getting spam recalled. Whatever, I'm still rushing xenobio.

Eventually, I get a Light Pink crossbreed of stabilizing (This'll be important) and a purple crossbreed of slow regeneration. As I'm working on xenobio. The shuttle comes and the captain announces over comms with a loud headset for the shuttle to not be early launched, CE also asks for this.

I hoped that this would be followed as I rushed RnD. The shuttle comes, very rapidly gets early launched to the dismay of the previously stated head of staff members. In my shock and frustration, I rush onto the shuttle to see why this happened.

HoS barely got on as well. Made me even angrier as it appeared that someone tried to leave at least 3 head of staff members on the station, with only one out of the three getting on board.

He RCD's the two walls someone built in front of the bridge. Which I presume was to allow for this early launch without any resistance. Now I'm ready to completely clobber whoever decided to in my opinion completely mutiny against the other head of staff members and abandon crew-members for no apparent reason.

Guess who I see standing in front of the console, that I was ready to clobber? The RD!

So I go up to them, crash into the floor. Someone drops their circular saw, and I grab it and begin bashing them with it. To scratch them up a bit for our first dispute, and this mess.

There was no intent to kill, as when the RD critted, my ambulance function healed them up. In part with their own nanites. Everythings quiet for a bit more, RD gets up and starts shooting lasers to get vengeance.

I go back and slide under them, and crit them again. My epi-pen feature stabilizes them and would then bring them back-

but then the round ended and the shuttle got bombed. Leaving the RD for dead.

I think it was pure escalation and stands to say that you shouldn't do direct insubordination and dick-move to your other staff members.

It wasn't murder, and it wasn't even attempted murder. You just got a good thrashing near the end of the game for the acts you did at the end of the game. Otherwise as seen, you would have got up once again.

I think that's a pretty good explanation from my point of view to why things played out as they did. Negative behavior creates even more negative behavior. But once more, no one was eating death or even grief.
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#3
I don't really know how to feel about this,

I don't like the way Shadow purposefully worded his defense with so many unnecessary words to make him look like an amazing hero, "In my shock and frustration" etc. etc.

I also don't like the few chat messages from Shadow in OOC. "I only kept you in alive(in crit) because if you died I would've gotten banned." It seems like Shadow is using his experience as an admin of knowing what constitutes punishment and what is within the rules, using that experience to walk the fine line of ruining other player's rounds but still being within the rules per say.

It's clear Shadow solely critted him because of the negative IC encounter they had earlier that round which is childish, using the early launch as a valid excuse. However, I do believe launching the shuttle early despite two head of staff's request, one being captain, should make you valid, unless there was a serious threat that could've boarded the shuttle and made it's way back to Centcom

The questions I want to pose are:

- How did the RD manage to launch early on his own? If someone else was inside, why weren't they targeted as well?
- Why did the RD launch early?
- Why couldn't the RD be detained if the HoS is on the shuttle? Why is a scientist lynching his own boss?
- Can someone post chat logs as proof that the Captain and CE said to not launch early, as well as any logs between RD and others during the shuttle encounter?
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#4
I’m Slorbin. I believe I was HOS this round. I saw you fucking the RD over in the cockpit. I removed the rcd’s walls with my own rcd, and you ran in and started beating the shit out of him if I remember correctly. It wasn’t a dick move, I got on fine, the only reason I almost missed the shuttle was because I was igniting bluespace capsules outside. I didn’t take care of it immediately because I didn’t have a gun on me and was trying to fix the door so more wouldn’t flood in. Overall, no one died and it’s roundend so who really gives a shit? People smash each other over the skulls in the shuttle all the time, it’s just how the shuttle works 9/10 times.

Tbh though, mod, your rebuttle is kindof childish. You try to make yourself all high and mighty when all you were doing was breaking in and smashing your rd for putting his key in the shuttle. If I remember correctly, it didn’t even launch early. I got inside when there were about 11 seconds on the timer.
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#5
I only threatened to fire you because you wouldn't drop the fucking topic. Going on and on about "Nanites are gay" for literally no reason without provocation. After QUITE A FEW remarks I decided to end the argument by simply telling you to drop it or I'd demote you. I wasn't being a dick, you were for purposefully stirring up an argument over my decision as RD to do something as unharmful as set up nanites after already researching important techs like mining and high-quality stock parts. I'm going to outright state from here, though I have no proof, that you were going out of your way to stir up trouble to bait me into becoming valid. I had not said a single word to you throughout the shift after the incident and just wanted to let bygones be bygones since I hadn't heard much, Hell, I even attempted to upgrade the slime processor (Though you or someone else had already done so).

I was *NOT* the one who RCD'd the doors, and being that I didn't have 3 command keycards and that the shuttle was going absolutely insane, I put in my own auth. Two heads clearly agreed, as they also did so. Furthermore, I was deafened throughout most of the shuttle's dock and departure, and otherwise didn't notice that the captain had asked to abstain from an early launch. I don't remember if we even did get an early launch, but you clearly didn't care.

Furthermore, it is very clear in the rules you cannot crit someone unless you're an antag, they attempted to crit you, or are otherwise valid. You even openly stated that you would have gladly killed me but only avoided that to avoid a ban (as displayed in my first screenshot). This all showing you were very aware not only of the fact that you were breaking the spirit of the server rules, but also that you were aware that doing this had no justification whatsoever.

In fact, let's look this over: 1.3: Do not act as an antagonist when not one. If you commit crimes that can result in you receiving capital punishment as non-antagonist, you are breaking this rule.

Now, you said that I was acting treasonously? Were all three of the heads that passed the early departures being treasonous? if so, why did you only attack me? How is a single scientist determining this on his own? He was the one who broke into the cockpit and attacked a head of staff. This could easily fall under Treason itself, and Attempted murder, though you could get off on the second the first is without a doubt applicable.

2: Griefing is not allowed. Griefplay is when a player disrupts the enjoyment of other players outside the rules of the game. This can range from killing or trapping them

As we're all aware, being stuck in crit is no fun, and shuttle grief specifically is heavily discouraged on most SS13 servers. Now, I for one would posit that keeping someone in crit for upwards of 3 minutes could easily count as trapping someone.

At this point, I have stated all of my grievances with your behavior, which I think is ridiculous, undignified, and reflects poorly on the staff team.
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#6
Lol bro if critting isn't against the rules why did I get banned for a month for toolboxing the RD, didn't even crit them and they murdered me, you just selectively enforce the rules then shadow?

It is clearly. You didn't even have conclusive evidence or reason to fucking attack the RD except that "Muh early shuttle call" sorry but the shuttle leaving doesn't fucking matter unless you're an antag and have the objective to escape, and you obviously weren't.
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#7
I'd say that unless the RD is in dereliction of duty, it is within their right to threaten firing members of science.
Sure, once in a while an RD could be doing things that others disagree with, but the RD is the fuckin Research Director.
Disputes about research should be ended by the RD.

Also non-antags should never harm a head of staff unless:
1. ling
2. head of staff is harming non-antags
If neither of those are happening you have no reason to harm a head.

The heads leaving people behind on an early shuttle launch sucks for those left behind but tough shit. That's no reason to harm them.
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#8
First of all. Those weren't head of staff-members. The people in that cockpit were you, an assistant, a Medical Doctor, and maybe another head of staff member. But they weren't in any obvious gear.

The shuttle did get early launched, its why the CE screamed over comms for bloody murder. It's why I was angry that my nearly completed crossbreed was cut-short. so I ran onto the shuttle ready to beat someone up for cutting down 1 minute to 10 seconds.

HoS RCD'd in, and it was seen that you specifically were standing in front of the early launch console. So I targetted you specifically, with originally my hands, but the circular saw the medical doctor dropped right below you was also a good weapon.

Onto the complaint of potentially breaking rule 1.3: No capital crimes were broken. It was assault with a deadly weapon, which is a major crime. Attempted murder might have been viable, if you didn't get healed out of crit, then proceed to try to murder me as well via your escalation. Which I then re-critted you and stabilized you approximately at the last 10 seconds of the shuttle docking. Which you died from afterward because a bomb went off when it docked.


So TLDR:

1. Jeff, going "But another admin punished me with __. So how could this be fine?!?!" Doesn't really work, because everyone has different notes and different viewpoints with the semi-vague rules here. This is being corrected with a more in-depth rule update that hopefully gets implemented soon.

2. Fofofo, the negative encounter helped? But it was not the main causation. I assumed that the Captain and the CE's pleas for the shuttle to not be early launched would be heard, so I went to finish up my xenobio job. Only for me to be rushing to the shuttle and barely making it into the last two seconds.

Nearly spacing myself, I was very readily looking to beat up whoever disobeyed the two. I just happened to see the RD nab in front of the console when the HoS breaks down two walls with an RCD to get into bridge.

Lastly. 3. How could it be grief when at least you're being escalated against by a vigilante dealing with your last minute insubordination. Or at the highest scale, mutiny for ignoring the chain of command? Like the space-law says you should not do otherwise it is a capital crime.

As far as I see it. This is fair, because if we're both looking at the harsher end of this. We're both guilty of capital crimes here.

Don't early launch without a good reason! No matter who you are.

So that's why I think this complaint reflects poorly on an otherwise IC situation.
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#9
Shadow,
Getting put into crit by a circular saw and replying with lasers seems to me like self defense.
The aggressor in a situation like that is much more liable for the violence than the person who reacted in kind.
Just because you stabilized him doesn't make the violence okay.
And like you said in OOC, you only kept him alive because you didn't want to get banned.

This seems like griefing to me.
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#10
Grief Schmief.

The full OOC chat was him bragging about not dying thanks to his killer nanites.

I stated that I intentionally didn't kill him because that would have obviously been too far and netted me a ban.

Wording may have the context that I pre-planned this out since the start and was looking for any reason to crit him. But no, he was just the guy who made me angry enough to risk death to beat him up.

Also FeelsGoodMan there is an "Amends" portion both in the capital attempted murder charge for space-law and if it was full-murder (which it wasn't.) There's a section about murders caused by passion being more acceptable.

Not Grief. Not acting like an Antag. Just a passionate hostile beating that was temporarily resolved. But continued near the end of the round because I was being attacked as well by the same person.
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