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Genuine accidents
#1
Your OOC name (byond username):ikrarkjr

Your in-game name (Used most or at the time):Ambrosia

Your Discord username and #tag:ambrosia#0177

Approximate Time of Ban (Give your best estimate. Used for investigation): 10-08-2019 13:48

Ban Reason/Message (Copy paste or screenshot of the ban screen with round ID, banning admin visible): will be below

State your appeal (Please limit to 500 words or less):


Basically I was banned for two things at once so I'll explain both

1. Giving an AI the onehuman law: I made my own AI that round and gave it the onehuman law, so that I could tell it "All non-enemy of nanotrasen crew are human" therefore making it basically better asimov AI, which also cant be subverted. Except that isn't actually how it works (explained to me after being banned) and I didnt realize that at the time, just thought i was making a 'better' asimov. There is proof im not lying here by what i said in logs, what i told the AI, and how Navaar saw the ai, asked what laws it had, and i explained to him it has onehuman but i told it that the crew is human.

2. Killing with His Grace: For this part I believe that the problem isnt that I killed with it, as anyone who accidentally opens it has to to live, but rather that i stated multiple times I KNEW that it was His Grace, yet opened it anyway (or so it appeared). What actually happened here is that I was running from the chaplain who was trying to get His Grace back (did not have it activated) and he ended up shoving me to the ground. I spam-clicked on His Grace while it was on the floor but the game juttered (lagged for a half second) right then. For some reason the game registered my clicks in a weird way. 1st click picked it up, 2nd click activated it in hand (as if i clicked on the toolbox again while holding it in hand, which i DID NOT do). Windarkata asked me why, if I wasnt going to open it, I didnt just immediately space and i said that, as you can see in logs, i was trying to get a gun to shoot it, because if you shoot it, it dies permanently and everyone who was eaten comes out (can be cloned again). Other than that, it would be weird to open it right then. Why not before? Why not in medbay or morgue if i wanted to kill people (talking about if i was lying here) Sure, being shoved over is bad, but just picking up the toolbox would mean im fine, the only thing to worry about would be if HE got it first, so why would i just activate it then? (keeping in mind he shoved me a lot before then, in which i didnt open it)


So in essence, the first thing involving the AI i have definitive proof i was just trying to do a good thing, not realizing what I did actually doesnt work the way i thought it did. The second thing involving His Grace i have reasonable proof, and the only thing that I could think of that would be definitive proof, would be if in the logs it shows me spam clicking right when i opened it (hitting the amount of clicks in a second that notifies the admins, in which normally only happens when the game lags and registers the clicks all at once) BUT i dont actually know if that happened or not. I wouldve screenshot or at the very least looked at the logs myself to know this, but I had been banned the next day, meaning I didnt know I was going to be banned for it while I had the logs in chat.

The ban notice


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#2
I think you're a terrible person but this is the wrong reason to be banned. The AI thing was definitely to cuck antags, dick move but people don't give that much of a shit about validhunting anyways. On top of that, I vividly remember being allowed to continue killstreaks with His Grace even as nonantag if you just saw it and grabbed it, so I don't see why you'd get banned for that. I don't think the ban is justified, overall.
#3
I mean its only cucking antags that don't try to be stealthy at all
For example, ASIMOV AI cant harm a ling if they havent seen them use their abilities, regardless of what people have claimed
Therefore the same sort of thing exists for that law on AI, except instead of ling, things like traitors
For example seeing a guy emagging into CMO office, then he would no longer be human
But just seeing a guy murdering another guy, he would still be human (until sec searches him and finds an esword or something)
#4
From my understanding both of these issues occurred when no staff were on, so no one had the luxury of being able to steer you in the right direction here.

As with all things, sound judgement is important and considering what any other rational person would do.

For example, with the AI, why not give it the law you intended to word out through a freeform module?

And for the His Grace, why not get a solution prepared for it, like having security come there and then picking it up and having them break it off of you (something along those lines)?

There are always multiple solutions to problems - and its vital to weigh them all. The easiest solutions tend not to be the best.
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#5
For the AI, I was looking at the wiki on how to build one, since I had never really made one before
It said it starts with asimov laws, but has a step before finishing where you can upload a law, without needing an AI upload
Because of that, I thought, 'Well what single law would be good to put on asimov, so that it doesnt protect bad dudes'? And scrolling through the list I saw OneHuman, which seemed like the PERFECT law to put on, since it modifies asimov in exactly the way I wanted (again, as i thought the law worked at the time, where i could tell it other people are human too)

For His Grace, I assume you are talking about after I activated it, right? Well, I had already spent about 2 minutes looking for just a single person from sec, even a deputy, but could not find one (whether due to lowpop, which it was, or due to them being inside the toolbox)
But to be honest, it was mostly just panic
You open His Grace, you get put on a timer till you die unless you eat someone, so I wasnt really thinking about the best situation, just "oh fuck great now i gotta eat people" and running off to do that before the timer runs out
#6
(10-13-2019, 04:54 AM)Misdoubtful Wrote: From my understanding both of these issues occurred when no staff were on, so no one had the luxury of being able to steer you in the right direction here.

As with all things, sound judgement is important and considering what any other rational person would do.

For example, with the AI, why not give it the law you intended to word out through a freeform module?

And for the His Grace, why not get a solution prepared for it, like having security come there and then picking it up and having them break it off of you (something along those lines)?

There are always multiple solutions to problems - and its vital to weigh them all. The easiest solutions tend not to be the best.
How about you let players make their own decisions and not ban everyone for being a human?


If you'd like to dictate how every player on the server should play, why don't YOU just play the game by yourself?

:>
#7
(10-12-2019, 05:28 PM)ikrarkjr Wrote: Your OOC name (byond username):ikrarkjr

Your in-game name (Used most or at the time):Ambrosia

Your Discord username and #tag:ambrosia#0177

Approximate Time of Ban (Give your best estimate. Used for investigation): 10-08-2019 13:48

Ban Reason/Message (Copy paste or screenshot of the ban screen with round ID, banning admin visible): will be below

State your appeal (Please limit to 500 words or less):


Basically I was banned for two things at once so I'll explain both

1. Giving an AI the onehuman law: I made my own AI that round and gave it the onehuman law, so that I could tell it "All non-enemy of nanotrasen crew are human" therefore making it basically better asimov AI, which also cant be subverted. Except that isn't actually how it works (explained to me after being banned) and I didnt realize that at the time, just thought i was making a 'better' asimov. There is proof im not lying here by what i said in logs, what i told the AI, and how Navaar saw the ai, asked what laws it had, and i explained to him it has onehuman but i told it that the crew is human.

2. Killing with His Grace: For this part I believe that the problem isnt that I killed with it, as anyone who accidentally opens it has to to live, but rather that i stated multiple times I KNEW that it was His Grace, yet opened it anyway (or so it appeared). What actually happened here is that I was running from the chaplain who was trying to get His Grace back (did not have it activated) and he ended up shoving me to the ground. I spam-clicked on His Grace while it was on the floor but the game juttered (lagged for a half second) right then. For some reason the game registered my clicks in a weird way. 1st click picked it up, 2nd click activated it in hand (as if i clicked on the toolbox again while holding it in hand, which i DID NOT do). Windarkata asked me why, if I wasnt going to open it, I didnt just immediately space and i said that, as you can see in logs, i was trying to get a gun to shoot it, because if you shoot it, it dies permanently and everyone who was eaten comes out (can be cloned again). Other than that, it would be weird to open it right then. Why not before? Why not in medbay or morgue if i wanted to kill people (talking about if i was lying here) Sure, being shoved over is bad, but just picking up the toolbox would mean im fine, the only thing to worry about would be if HE got it first, so why would i just activate it then? (keeping in mind he shoved me a lot before then, in which i didnt open it)


So in essence, the first thing involving the AI i have definitive proof i was just trying to do a good thing, not realizing what I did actually doesnt work the way i thought it did. The second thing involving His Grace i have reasonable proof, and the only thing that I could think of that would be definitive proof, would be if in the logs it shows me spam clicking right when i opened it (hitting the amount of clicks in a second that notifies the admins, in which normally only happens when the game lags and registers the clicks all at once) BUT i dont actually know if that happened or not. I wouldve screenshot or at the very least looked at the logs myself to know this, but I had been banned the next day, meaning I didnt know I was going to be banned for it while I had the logs in chat.

The ban notice
I watched you pick up his grace, and go into science killing everyone in the department, it wasn't an accident it was deliberate. As for uploading a one human lawset, or any of the negative ones without any reason to is considered griefing and self antagonizing.
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I'll lift it this one time, but if anything happens again it'll just be permanent.
[Image: da01c143a42a2efcaf78b775fd2abc5a.png]


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