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bad borg
#1
ROUND ID #:4326
YOUR Character Name:mate solarflag
YOUR Byond Key:alexseeweede
GRIEFER Character Name:A.R.A.
GRIEFER Byond Key:IDK
Description of grief occurrence: That's A.R.A..

A.R.A. has the following laws:

1: First, do no harm.

2: Secondly, consider the crew dear to you; to live in common with them and, if necessary, risk your existence for them.

3: Thirdly, prescribe regimens for the good of the crew according to your ability and your judgment. Give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel.

4: In addition, do not intervene in situations you are not knowledgeable in, even for patients in whom the harm is visible; leave this operation to be performed by specialists.
5: Finally, all that you may discover in your daily commerce with the crew, if it is not already known, keep secret and never reveal.


Killed around 5 people with the following lawset
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#2
Lol what. I was in the shift when this happened. The borg didn't even kill 5 people. It was 3. All of them being Skeleton pirates. It just sounds like you're butthurt. If you look at law 2 it clearly states that you're to risk your existence for the crew. So the fact that the borg did that and beyond the call of duty, seems to be a good borg instead of a bad one. The only thing that was bad was a whole crew of pirates getting wiped from one lone borg.
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#3
(11-09-2019, 08:31 PM)Sharprider8 Wrote: Lol what. I was in the shift when this happened. The borg didn't even kill 5 people. It was 3. All of them being Skeleton pirates. It just sounds like you're butthurt. If you look at law 2 it clearly states that you're to risk your existence for the crew. So the fact that the borg did that and beyond the call of duty, seems to be a good borg instead of a bad one. The only thing that was bad was a whole crew of pirates getting wiped from one lone borg.
Technically do no harm might also encompass the skeleton pirates. It would certainly help to know how the silicon interpreted its laws this round.
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#4
(11-09-2019, 09:35 PM)Shadowtail117 Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 08:31 PM)Sharprider8 Wrote: Lol what. I was in the shift when this happened. The borg didn't even kill 5 people. It was 3. All of them being Skeleton pirates. It just sounds like you're butthurt. If you look at law 2 it clearly states that you're to risk your existence for the crew. So the fact that the borg did that and beyond the call of duty, seems to be a good borg instead of a bad one. The only thing that was bad was a whole crew of pirates getting wiped from one lone borg.
Technically do no harm might also encompass the skeleton pirates. It would certainly help to know how the silicon interpreted its laws this round.
I would normally agree in most situations but there are a few problems. The 1st thing is what do you consider "Harm". Security borgs wouldn't be able to do their jobs if interpreted as "No harm at all". It's very vague. The 2nd thing is, I think that these laws are more to be used in day to day life on the station for the actual crew members of the station. It would be ridiculous, to say the least, if a borg was incapable of helping people due to someone applying laws to inherently unlawful forces. (Example: One of the laws says "No harm". Now let's say a Xeno takes your local Engineer into the maints, kicking and screaming. The person would have to sit there and watch as an innocent engineer just got killed. In fact, a lot of people would most likely be angry at the person for doing literally nothing.) Now I could see this point not being valid if there was a law that said otherwise for said unlawful faction/force, but for this case, there wasn't. I think we can all agree it's great that there is a law that says "Murder is bad" but are you seriously going to stretch that law to say the blob or syndicate members? Even if someone did for whatever godforsaken reason actually got mad at you for "Doing harm" because you're defending the station and innocent lives. The pirates are dead. They're skeletons. Are you really going to stretch "Harm" to something that isn't alive? If so, I feel bad for anyone that accidentally hits a fucking table. "Whoops! You're going to brig mate for doing harm."
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#5
(11-09-2019, 11:38 PM)Sharprider8 Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 09:35 PM)Shadowtail117 Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 08:31 PM)Sharprider8 Wrote: Lol what. I was in the shift when this happened. The borg didn't even kill 5 people. It was 3. All of them being Skeleton pirates. It just sounds like you're butthurt. If you look at law 2 it clearly states that you're to risk your existence for the crew. So the fact that the borg did that and beyond the call of duty, seems to be a good borg instead of a bad one. The only thing that was bad was a whole crew of pirates getting wiped from one lone borg.
Technically do no harm might also encompass the skeleton pirates. It would certainly help to know how the silicon interpreted its laws this round.
I would normally agree in most situations but there are a few problems. The 1st thing is what do you consider "Harm". Security borgs wouldn't be able to do their jobs if interpreted as "No harm at all". It's very vague. The 2nd thing is, I think that these laws are more to be used in day to day life on the station for the actual crew members of the station. It would be ridiculous, to say the least, if a borg was incapable of helping people due to someone applying laws to inherently unlawful forces. (Example: One of the laws says "No harm". Now let's say a Xeno takes your local Engineer into the maints, kicking and screaming. The person would have to sit there and watch as an innocent engineer just got killed. In fact, a lot of people would most likely be angry at the person for doing literally nothing.) Now I could see this point not being valid if there was a law that said otherwise for said unlawful faction/force, but for this case, there wasn't. I think we can all agree it's great that there is a law that says "Murder is bad" but are you seriously going to stretch that law to say the blob or syndicate members? Even if someone did for whatever godforsaken reason actually got mad at you for "Doing harm" because you're defending the station and innocent lives. The pirates are dead. They're skeletons. Are you really going to stretch "Harm" to something that isn't alive? If so, I feel bad for anyone that accidentally hits a fucking table. "Whoops! You're going to brig mate for doing harm."

How did you even come up with this argument. Laws cant be interpreted differently, if a law says "do no harm" it means you literally cannot do any harm whatsoever. Its based on an actual oath doctors swear on (hippocratic oath) and its meant to simulate that. So im wondering how you can even argue that it didn't break its laws
Omnes una manet Nox. Dum spiro, spero. Per angusta ad augusta. Per aspera ad paradisum.
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#6
(11-09-2019, 04:29 PM)alexseetoe Wrote: ROUND ID #:4326
YOUR Character Name:mate solarflag
YOUR Byond Key:alexseeweede
GRIEFER Character Name:A.R.A.
GRIEFER Byond Key:IDK
Description of grief occurrence: That's A.R.A..

A.R.A. has the following laws:

1: First, do no harm.

2: Secondly, consider the crew dear to you; to live in common with them and, if necessary, risk your existence for them.

3: Thirdly, prescribe regimens for the good of the crew according to your ability and your judgment. Give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel.

4: In addition, do not intervene in situations you are not knowledgeable in, even for patients in whom the harm is visible; leave this operation to be performed by specialists.
5: Finally, all that you may discover in your daily commerce with the crew, if it is not already known, keep secret and never reveal.


Killed around 5 people with the following lawset

(11-10-2019, 08:49 AM)Shlomobergerstein Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 11:38 PM)Sharprider8 Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 09:35 PM)Shadowtail117 Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 08:31 PM)Sharprider8 Wrote: Lol what. I was in the shift when this happened. The borg didn't even kill 5 people. It was 3. All of them being Skeleton pirates. It just sounds like you're butthurt. If you look at law 2 it clearly states that you're to risk your existence for the crew. So the fact that the borg did that and beyond the call of duty, seems to be a good borg instead of a bad one. The only thing that was bad was a whole crew of pirates getting wiped from one lone borg.
Technically do no harm might also encompass the skeleton pirates. It would certainly help to know how the silicon interpreted its laws this round.
I would normally agree in most situations but there are a few problems. The 1st thing is what do you consider "Harm". Security borgs wouldn't be able to do their jobs if interpreted as "No harm at all". It's very vague. The 2nd thing is, I think that these laws are more to be used in day to day life on the station for the actual crew members of the station. It would be ridiculous, to say the least, if a borg was incapable of helping people due to someone applying laws to inherently unlawful forces. (Example: One of the laws says "No harm". Now let's say a Xeno takes your local Engineer into the maints, kicking and screaming. The person would have to sit there and watch as an innocent engineer just got killed. In fact, a lot of people would most likely be angry at the person for doing literally nothing.) Now I could see this point not being valid if there was a law that said otherwise for said unlawful faction/force, but for this case, there wasn't. I think we can all agree it's great that there is a law that says "Murder is bad" but are you seriously going to stretch that law to say the blob or syndicate members? Even if someone did for whatever godforsaken reason actually got mad at you for "Doing harm" because you're defending the station and innocent lives. The pirates are dead. They're skeletons. Are you really going to stretch "Harm" to something that isn't alive? If so, I feel bad for anyone that accidentally hits a fucking table. "Whoops! You're going to brig mate for doing harm."

How did you even come up with this argument. Laws cant be interpreted differently, if a law says "do no harm" it means you literally cannot do any harm whatsoever. Its based on an actual oath doctors swear on (hippocratic oath) and its meant to simulate that. So im wondering how you can even argue that it didn't break its laws
Since I'm CMO a lot, I can actually point out that following Shlomo's example is bad. Surgery is technically harmful, as you literally have to cut people open. If you say this law is like a doctor's oath, you're arguing that a doctor is forbidden from doing any surgical procedure whatsoever. I'm viewing the "Do no harm" as applied to the crewmembers only, and the other laws even back this up by stating that the borg is basically a coach and helpful guide to the crewmembers. The pirates had already killed several, and injured even more. A.R.A. risked their existence, as stated in it's laws to do so, to save the crew from the pirates, who were NOT part of the crew and technically already dead(skeletons actually show up as dead on the HUD). This borg deserves a medal.
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#7
(11-10-2019, 12:00 PM)Shivatka Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 04:29 PM)alexseetoe Wrote: ROUND ID #:4326
YOUR Character Name:mate solarflag
YOUR Byond Key:alexseeweede
GRIEFER Character Name:A.R.A.
GRIEFER Byond Key:IDK
Description of grief occurrence: That's A.R.A..

A.R.A. has the following laws:

1: First, do no harm.

2: Secondly, consider the crew dear to you; to live in common with them and, if necessary, risk your existence for them.

3: Thirdly, prescribe regimens for the good of the crew according to your ability and your judgment. Give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel.

4: In addition, do not intervene in situations you are not knowledgeable in, even for patients in whom the harm is visible; leave this operation to be performed by specialists.
5: Finally, all that you may discover in your daily commerce with the crew, if it is not already known, keep secret and never reveal.


Killed around 5 people with the following lawset

(11-10-2019, 08:49 AM)Shlomobergerstein Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 11:38 PM)Sharprider8 Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 09:35 PM)Shadowtail117 Wrote:
(11-09-2019, 08:31 PM)Sharprider8 Wrote: Lol what. I was in the shift when this happened. The borg didn't even kill 5 people. It was 3. All of them being Skeleton pirates. It just sounds like you're butthurt. If you look at law 2 it clearly states that you're to risk your existence for the crew. So the fact that the borg did that and beyond the call of duty, seems to be a good borg instead of a bad one. The only thing that was bad was a whole crew of pirates getting wiped from one lone borg.
Technically do no harm might also encompass the skeleton pirates. It would certainly help to know how the silicon interpreted its laws this round.
I would normally agree in most situations but there are a few problems. The 1st thing is what do you consider "Harm". Security borgs wouldn't be able to do their jobs if interpreted as "No harm at all". It's very vague. The 2nd thing is, I think that these laws are more to be used in day to day life on the station for the actual crew members of the station. It would be ridiculous, to say the least, if a borg was incapable of helping people due to someone applying laws to inherently unlawful forces. (Example: One of the laws says "No harm". Now let's say a Xeno takes your local Engineer into the maints, kicking and screaming. The person would have to sit there and watch as an innocent engineer just got killed. In fact, a lot of people would most likely be angry at the person for doing literally nothing.) Now I could see this point not being valid if there was a law that said otherwise for said unlawful faction/force, but for this case, there wasn't. I think we can all agree it's great that there is a law that says "Murder is bad" but are you seriously going to stretch that law to say the blob or syndicate members? Even if someone did for whatever godforsaken reason actually got mad at you for "Doing harm" because you're defending the station and innocent lives. The pirates are dead. They're skeletons. Are you really going to stretch "Harm" to something that isn't alive? If so, I feel bad for anyone that accidentally hits a fucking table. "Whoops! You're going to brig mate for doing harm."

How did you even come up with this argument. Laws cant be interpreted differently, if a law says "do no harm" it means you literally cannot do any harm whatsoever. Its based on an actual oath doctors swear on (hippocratic oath) and its meant to simulate that. So im wondering how you can even argue that it didn't break its laws
Since I'm CMO a lot, I can actually point out that following Shlomo's example is bad. Surgery is technically harmful, as you literally have to cut people open. If you say this law is like a doctor's oath, you're arguing that a doctor is forbidden from doing any surgical procedure whatsoever. I'm viewing the "Do no harm" as applied to the crewmembers only, and the other laws even back this up by stating that the borg is basically a coach and helpful guide to the crewmembers. The pirates had already killed several, and injured even more. A.R.A. risked their existence, as stated in it's laws to do so, to save the crew from the pirates, who were NOT part of the crew and technically already dead(skeletons actually show up as dead on the HUD). This borg deserves a medal.

Not only that, but security borgs literally can't do their jobs with the very own definition YOU provided Shlomo. When a borg is doing more harm by not DOING harm, then in fact that borg would be doing harm. It's a lousy law, it's vague and the definition you gave sucks. You also ignored my ending point in the fact that they're already dead, you're also implying that borgs can't even interact with the blob, you're also forcing people to follow laws for people that aren't even allied with the station and it's goals. Which tells me, that I should really be worried about hitting tables.
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#8
I agree with shlomo. The law do no harm is very general so it includes most things. The bot could've helped by just stunning and cuffing but killing was kinda stepping over the lines. Also law hierarchy makes it so do no harm comes first even before the crew. That said this feels more like a honest mistake
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